Driftless Trout Anglers

Welcome Guest! To enable all features please Login or Register.

Notification

Icon
Error

2 Pages12>
Options
Go to last post Go to first unread
TedderX  
#1 Posted : Tuesday, June 28, 2016 9:54:35 PM(UTC)
TedderX
Rank: Midge

Joined: 5/22/2016(UTC)
Posts: 43
Location: GA

What is the difference between the original coachman fly and the leadwing coachman fly?

I've got an old book that references them as two separate flies. But when I google it, they look the same to me.

And no, I'm not talking royal coachman. That is a totally separate fly from these two.

Edited by user Tuesday, June 28, 2016 9:55:50 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Sponsor
OTC_MN  
#2 Posted : Wednesday, June 29, 2016 6:10:31 AM(UTC)
OTC_MN
Rank: Caddis Fly

Joined: 3/18/2016(UTC)
Posts: 207
Location: St Paul MN

Thanks: 5 times
Was thanked: 26 time(s) in 19 post(s)
TedderX wrote:
What is the difference between the original coachman fly and the leadwing coachman fly?

I've got an old book that references them as two separate flies. But when I google it, they look the same to me.

And no, I'm not talking royal coachman. That is a totally separate fly from these two.


The original Coachman has a white wing, while the Leadwing replaces white with a slate gray (i.e., lead-colored) mallard quill wing, and, if you want to get technical, also adds a gold tag.
"Our tradition is that of the first man who sneaked away to the creek when the tribe did not really need fish."
- Roderick Haig-Brown
TedderX  
#3 Posted : Wednesday, June 29, 2016 5:10:17 PM(UTC)
TedderX
Rank: Midge

Joined: 5/22/2016(UTC)
Posts: 43
Location: GA

Yes, please be technical. That's how I'm learning things.

I didn't know "leadwing" meant gray feather.

Are you sure the original coachman doesn't have a gold tag? The book I have shows the original with the gold flat tinsel.
OTC_MN  
#4 Posted : Friday, July 1, 2016 6:43:12 AM(UTC)
OTC_MN
Rank: Caddis Fly

Joined: 3/18/2016(UTC)
Posts: 207
Location: St Paul MN

Thanks: 5 times
Was thanked: 26 time(s) in 19 post(s)
TedderX wrote:
Yes, please be technical. That's how I'm learning things.

I didn't know "leadwing" meant gray feather.

Are you sure the original coachman doesn't have a gold tag? The book I have shows the original with the gold flat tinsel.


Out of curiosity, I went back and looked at some of my old fly tying books to see what they had for Coachman and Leadwing Coachman patterns.

For the Coachman, one book (pub. 1977) did not call for a tag. Two others (pub. 1940 and 1979) did. For the Leadwing Coachman it was 50-50. The book from 1940 didn't show a tag, the one from 1977 did.

Really, unless you're talking classic salmon flies (and maybe not even then) 'traditional' is very much open to interpretation.

Kind of cool to look back at old pattern books sometimes though and see what's changed - and what hasn't. Some patterns that are still around have sure evolved over time, and some that were pretty popular and effective have sort of died out. A Montana nymph used to be a standard stonefly nymph just about every Western trout fisherman had in their box, but I bet hardly anyone carries them anymore. On the other hand, a Partridge and Orange soft hackle hasn't changed much.

The book from 1940 has pretty detailed instructions on how to make your own tying vise. I'm all for tradition, but I think I'd miss my rotating Peak. Laugh
"Our tradition is that of the first man who sneaked away to the creek when the tribe did not really need fish."
- Roderick Haig-Brown
TedderX  
#5 Posted : Saturday, July 2, 2016 5:51:17 PM(UTC)
TedderX
Rank: Midge

Joined: 5/22/2016(UTC)
Posts: 43
Location: GA

Do you have a picture of that Montana Nymph?

And, want to sell me them books? :)
EddieRivard  
#6 Posted : Saturday, July 2, 2016 8:30:38 PM(UTC)
EddieRivard
Rank: Dragon Fly

Joined: 7/26/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,175
Location: New Brighton MN

Thanks: 59 times
Was thanked: 20 time(s) in 13 post(s)
Here is the description in one of my books. I'll look through the rest of my library to see what else I can find.
UserPostedImage
TedderX  
#7 Posted : Thursday, July 7, 2016 7:48:54 PM(UTC)
TedderX
Rank: Midge

Joined: 5/22/2016(UTC)
Posts: 43
Location: GA

The one in my book looks totally different. Is that even peacock herl?

Mine was published in 1979:

UserPostedImage
TedderX  
#8 Posted : Thursday, July 7, 2016 7:50:58 PM(UTC)
TedderX
Rank: Midge

Joined: 5/22/2016(UTC)
Posts: 43
Location: GA

I just realized my book says "bronze" peacock herl. I'm assuming that's another material I wasn't aware of.
TreArrow  
#9 Posted : Friday, July 8, 2016 6:29:08 AM(UTC)
TreArrow
Rank: May Fly

Joined: 4/14/2013(UTC)
Posts: 177
Man
Location: Blackduck, MN

Some peacock feathers have a bronze cast to them, I've also read you can leave peacock feathers in the sun and they will turn bronze. I've always tied coachman's with standard herl, its perfectly acceptable to substitute materials and experiment. When I started tying I was very dogmatic about having the "right" materials, as I've tied and fished more I've realized that you will go broke or mad if you keep trying to aquire every material under the sun with which to tie with. As a result, I've become more pragmatic and creative in my material choices. Don't worry, even if your herl is not bronze a fly tied with it will still catch fish! Presentation, fly size/profile all matter more to fish than subtle variations in color.
OTC_MN  
#10 Posted : Monday, July 11, 2016 7:59:59 AM(UTC)
OTC_MN
Rank: Caddis Fly

Joined: 3/18/2016(UTC)
Posts: 207
Location: St Paul MN

Thanks: 5 times
Was thanked: 26 time(s) in 19 post(s)
TedderX wrote:
Do you have a picture of that Montana Nymph?

And, want to sell me them books? :)


I probably have some Montana Nymphs in a box somewhere, but it's a simple fly. Brown hackle fiber tail, black chenille body, double the chenille over and tie it off so it becomes the wing case. Thorax is yellow chenille with some lead under it to bulk it up a little, with a brown hackle palmered over it. Pull the doubled black chenille forward for the wing case, tie it off and you're done. Can probably find instructions all over the net for it. Lots of very lifelike nymph patterns out there, and I love tying them, but the Montana and Bitch Creek nymphs are still pretty good attract patterns, especially in fast water. I have a friend who fishes the Black Hills a lot and a Bitch Creek is far and away his favorite pattern there.

No chance on the books. I've had a couple of them since I was in about 5th grade. Laugh

I did see the other day though that one of them is still in print - Eric Leiser's Complete Book of Fly Tying. Pre-YouTube (by a long ways) and with nobody to teach me in person, that book was how I learned to tie flies.
"Our tradition is that of the first man who sneaked away to the creek when the tribe did not really need fish."
- Roderick Haig-Brown
Users browsing this topic
2 Pages12>
Forum Jump  
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.

Powered by YAF.NET | YAF.NET © 2003-2018, Yet Another Forum.NET
This page was generated in 0.368 seconds.