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troutspotr  
#1 Posted : Monday, April 3, 2017 5:02:28 PM(UTC)
troutspotr
Rank: Midge

Joined: 3/4/2017(UTC)
Posts: 26
Location: MPLS

Hi folks. This is stu, the guy with the website.

I'm working really hard on getting Wisconsin, but their regs are sooooooooo complex that it's almost irresponsible for me to release it to the public. I need some of your help, especially those of you from wisconsin.

Please review my site for as many regulations errors as you possibly can. Be harsh. I need some quality assurance before I can release it to the public.


Here is a link to the preview - THIS LINK WILL EVENTUALLY BE REMOVED IN MID-APRIL 2017.
https://troutspotr2-wisconsin.herokuapp.com/

I especially want you to review all the complex regs near lake superior and that annoying little stretch of counties where "early season" meets "no early season".

There are many bugs - but the faster I get feedback on this folk folks who know what's up (you!), the sooner I can fix it and release it!

Thanks!
~stu

Sponsor
shebs  
#2 Posted : Monday, April 3, 2017 7:56:05 PM(UTC)
shebs
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All superior tribs seem to be listed as closed. That's a horrible one for your algorithm, I imagine.
A bad day of fishing is better than a good day of work. ~Author Unknown
Modern Translation, with respect for the Notorious B.I.G. : "Fuck Money, Get Fishes"
Guillermo  
#3 Posted : Monday, April 3, 2017 10:11:56 PM(UTC)
Guillermo
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I would strongly advise you to consult this pdf: WI Early Season

Many of the counties I looked at in the app, specifically in NE Wisconsin, had streams listed as open for catch and release that are not and streams/rivers listed as closed that are open. The number of corrections would be too numerous to list here. You'd be best off consulting the pdf.
troutspotr  
#4 Posted : Monday, April 3, 2017 10:33:12 PM(UTC)
troutspotr
Rank: Midge

Joined: 3/4/2017(UTC)
Posts: 26
Location: MPLS

shebs wrote:
All superior tribs seem to be listed as closed. That's a horrible one for your algorithm, I imagine.
Thanks for the feedback! This one is pretty tricky. Been keeping me up at night. I've been thinking for the last three weeks, "What SHOULD the text say? Should it say it's open? What about the sections of the stream that are, in fact closed?"

First off, from my reading of the DNR's regs:
Wisconsin DNR 2017 Regulations wrote:
Lake Superior streams
(all streams are located in Ashland,
Bayfield, Douglas and Iron counties and
shown as black on the maps)

Streams flowing into Lake Superior have the following regulations from
their mouths upstream to the first impassable permanent barrier unless
shown in the Specific Waters Listed by County section.

Open season: May 6, 2017 at 5:00 am to September 30, 2017
Daily bag limit: 5 trout and salmon in total, only 2 of which may be
brown trout over 15" and only 1 of which may be a rainbow trout
Minimum length limit: brook trout 8", brown trout 10", salmon 12" and
rainbow trout 26"
Seems like they'd be closed right about now, no?

But wait! What about the Bois Brule River?
Quote:
BRULE RIVER (LS)—Downstream from USH 2
Open season: March 25 to November 15
Fishing is prohibited from ½ hour after sunset to ½ hour before sunrise
from March 25 to May 6 at 5:00 am and from October 1 through
November 15.
BRULE RIVER (LS)—CTH S downstream to CTH B
Open season: May 6 at 5:00 a.m.to September 30
Gear restriction: only artificial lures may be used
Daily bag limit: 3 trout and salmon in total, only 2 of which may be
brown trout, only 1 of which may be a rainbow trout.
Length limit:brooktrout10”browntrout15",salmon12",andrainbow
trout 26"
BRULE RIVER (LS)—Remainder not covered above—-
See the regulations under Lake Superior streams on page 3
Sooooo... some sections are open! And other sections are closed! Unfortunately, the data that the DNR has given to the public as far as regulations are concerned is absolutely insufficient to make a call here. I'm speaking specifically not about PDFs on early seasons, but their very own canonical shapefiles available on their FTP site. There are no dates or times - only that it's a lake superior "tributary".

So, is the Brule open or closed? Yes and no.
The heart of the question is, what should the text say, given that the stream is both open AND closed in certain sections, and there may or may not be a good way to find out when they open? I'm leaning towards text that says "This stream's regulations are unknown. Contact the DNR for regulations." and call it a day.


But let's talk about the word "Tributary". This one is really frustrating!



The superior "tributaries" that are listed in the WI regs are actually better defined as "reaches".

Check it out.
The tan section of the map is the Lake Superior Watershed. All streams inside it are tributaries, just like the Mississippi is a tributary of the gulf of mexico.
All blue sections are what the DNR says is a "lake superior tributary", and all red sections are not defined as "lake superior tributaries. There's TOO MUCH RED inside the tan!
UserPostedImage


The ratio of Lake superior regs against inland regs is dang near one-to-one, even if they're ALL ACTUALLY LAKE SUPERIOR TRIBUTARIES.
This means that many of the streams as a whole, are in fact CLOSED during the winter, with only little subsections (reaches) that are open.


THIS IS CONFUSING TO EVERYONE. Sorry to get poindextery on this one! :)




My page for the Bois Brule River, by the way, is straight-up wrong. My website says it doesn't have any special regulations, when it actually DOES have special regs. That's a definitely a bug.

Edited by user Monday, April 3, 2017 10:37:02 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

troutspotr  
#5 Posted : Tuesday, April 4, 2017 7:42:19 AM(UTC)
troutspotr
Rank: Midge

Joined: 3/4/2017(UTC)
Posts: 26
Location: MPLS

Contacted the Wisconsin DNR's GIS department. The shapefiles they gave me do have one unexplained field on them called "season cod", which sounds a lot like season code.

If the DNR can send me a spreadsheet of all their seasons (start and end times), we might be able to get reasonable openers and closers for the entire Superior region.
UserPostedImage


I really really really don't want to pore over each individual regulation when the Wisconsin DNR may have done it for me already. ThumpUp
shebs  
#6 Posted : Tuesday, April 4, 2017 7:11:58 PM(UTC)
shebs
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I don't know how much of a pain it would be, but maybe make the brule 3 different streams- upper, middle, and lower? That would work with most of the early season steelhead streams, where there is a long season at the bottom, a fish refuge in the middle, and an "inland" regs stretch above the barrier.
A bad day of fishing is better than a good day of work. ~Author Unknown
Modern Translation, with respect for the Notorious B.I.G. : "Fuck Money, Get Fishes"
troutspotr  
#7 Posted : Monday, April 10, 2017 8:17:54 PM(UTC)
troutspotr
Rank: Midge

Joined: 3/4/2017(UTC)
Posts: 26
Location: MPLS

New Version 4/10/2017
https://troutspotr2-wisconsin.herokuapp.com/

A compromise was made to reduce the total number of special regulations (44 different kinds of regs!) and still preserve the more nuanced streams.

If you find a problem with the regulations, let me know the following:
* The specific name of the stream
* What the expected regs are for april
* Where I can find them, and on what page.

There is no need to list every single problem stream. One will suffice for me to find the underlying problem and fix it.
https://troutspotr2-wisc...thshore/bois-brule-river
Guillermo  
#8 Posted : Wednesday, April 12, 2017 12:27:47 AM(UTC)
Guillermo
Rank: May Fly

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Posts: 414
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Every stream you have listed as being open currently in Langlade County, besides the Wolf River, are not open for early catch and release and are currently closed. In Marinette County the listed unnamed streams on top are also closed until May 6th. Also no streams are currently open in Menominee County. The whole county is an Indian Reservation anyway, but in any case all streams there are open from May 6th to October 15th for tribal residents. Moving on to Forest County, only the Peshtigo and Rat are open, everything else is May 6th- October 15th. For Florence County, the unnamed streams listed are not currently open. I had a hard time getting Oconto County to load but I would also check over that county as well.

Again though, the PDF I linked to earlier has all the information you need to make the necessary corrections. I would also add that if you're not going to specify which stretch of a river is open for early catch and release, you should at least have a prompt to reference the regulations. Some rivers open for early C&R (Jan-May) and late C&R (Oct. 16-Nov. 15) are only open above or below certain crossings.

Edited by user Wednesday, April 12, 2017 12:29:03 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

troutspotr  
#9 Posted : Wednesday, April 12, 2017 8:01:31 AM(UTC)
troutspotr
Rank: Midge

Joined: 3/4/2017(UTC)
Posts: 26
Location: MPLS

Guillermo wrote:
Every stream you have listed as being open currently in Langlade County, besides the Wolf River, are not open for early catch and release and are currently closed. In Marinette County the listed unnamed streams on top are also closed until May 6th. Also no streams are currently open in Menominee County. The whole county is an Indian Reservation anyway, but in any case all streams there are open from May 6th to October 15th for tribal residents. Moving on to Forest County, only the Peshtigo and Rat are open, everything else is May 6th- October 15th. For Florence County, the unnamed streams listed are not currently open. I had a hard time getting Oconto County to load but I would also check over that county as well.
Perfect!

Almost all the streams you mentioned were tagged with "Unknown Regulations." That means that the data provided by the DNR was insufficient to infer regulations. This is true for Menominee (because they don't have data for Menominee), as well as many, many other locations.

With this info, I can take a look at the DNR's data in closer detail, cross referencing it with their regulations booklet. There are over 3,000 regulated sections in Wisconsin, with over 44 unique regulations spanning openers, early season, and bag limits. Even narrowing it down to just Langlade County helps reduce this problem to something more solvable.

Sounds like "Unknown regulations" needs to have nullable start_date and start_times. That way, the front-end can check if there's a legit opener or not. If not, it'll say the honest truth, "I don't know if this stream is open or not. Check the regs to be sure."

Thanks! Huge help!

Guillerm wrote:
Again though, the PDF I linked to earlier has all the information you need to make the necessary corrections. I would also add that if you're not going to specify which stretch of a river is open for early catch and release, you should at least have a prompt to reference the regulations.
The app will specificy which sections are open for catch and release - but only if they are considered exceptions. For instance, if there's a stream that is entirely composed of early season openers, that will be integrated into it's core regs. If only some of it is early season, then the stream should be marked as "closed but with exceptions" and the specific section is shown in the details view. That's the goal.

I'll take a look at making the "Unknown Regs" more robust.
troutspotr  
#10 Posted : Thursday, April 13, 2017 9:44:30 PM(UTC)
troutspotr
Rank: Midge

Joined: 3/4/2017(UTC)
Posts: 26
Location: MPLS

UserPostedImage

You're looking at a map of all the "Early Seasons" sections, straight from the DNR's database (not mine). Does this seem right to you?
Specifically, take a look at the extreme upper right hand part of the state - North Branch of the Peme. Says it's got TWO sections, one in Marinette, and one in Florence. The only open stream in Florence is supposed to be Pine River, no?





Here's a pic of the regs from the 2017-2018 regs handbook, page 2.

UserPostedImage
Doesn't seem right to me at all.


Here's another one: Parts of the Pine River are, according to the data, open for early season in Forest county.

UserPostedImage


Anywho, hope this goes to show that human error creeps in at every step, and this is no easy task. Feedback like Guillermo's is really handy for that reason.

As we say, "garbage in, garbage out." I can't really clean up this data, but I can report your problems to Mitch at the DNR! :)


Yo Guillermo, I got another version for you if you're down.
I didn't fix the problem with Native Reservations - I'll get that in conjunction with MN.
Let me know if there are any other plain-vanilla glaring omissions.




https://troutspotr2-wisconsin.herokuapp.com/
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