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stan b  
#1 Posted : Tuesday, July 4, 2017 1:36:59 PM(UTC)
stan b
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"So what is big is not always the Trout nor the Deer but the chance, the being there. And what is full is not necessarily the creel nor the freezer, but the memory." ~ Aldo Leopold
weiliwen  
#2 Posted : Tuesday, July 4, 2017 2:39:59 PM(UTC)
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I'll start.

I used to work in the wind industry. The biggest limiting factor for wind energy is not finding places to put wind turbines (please, not windmills - they don't mill anything), but transmission lines. The national transmission grid system is the most wildly disorganized - perhaps I should say decentralized - piece of infrastructure in the USA. Places that are great for wind energy - Iowa and southern Minnesota are there, but the entire "flat" part of the Midwest - are sometimes far removed from current transmission lines. The Dakotas and Montana come to mind. There are some there, but not nearly enough leading to places where the energy is used to realize the potential .

There's going to be a fair amount of NIMBY going on here, and I understand that. If you're near enough, you can hear them crackle, and if you walk underneath with a fluorescent lightbulb, it will glow on its own. "They" say there's not effect on humans, but if there's enough electricity to make a lightbulb glow, it is reasonable to ask if it can affect life; studies on this are few and actively discouraged by Big Energy.

The radical right wing currently in power in Wisconsin will likely approve this and walk roughshod over any opponents, as they have done with so many other projects. So, it doesn't matter what we think, only what the people who put $$$ into Scott Walker's pockets think. Let's not pretend that we have anything close to a representative democracy in Wisconsin, or the USA for that matter. Big Money will win out, especially now. You can bank on that.

Sorry to get political, but this is the current situation. The Democrats are about 7.5% better; that is to say, not much. Do you want to jump off the 10th floor, or maybe jumping from the 9th floor might not hurt as bad? That's our choice.
Bob Williams, "Weiliwen"
William Schlafer  
#3 Posted : Tuesday, July 4, 2017 3:20:19 PM(UTC)
William Schlafer
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ATC is being very disingenuous.

They claim their doing their part to "keep the lights on and businesses running." But really what their really doing is using Wisconsin as a way station to ship power east. Very little of that wind power from the western plains states is needed or consumed here. As utility customers were indirectly paying for these lines to be built, as ATC charges the utilities hefty fees for their use. Your utility bills have never gone down one penny because a new transmission line was constructed.

The scenic drive along I-94 and the west beltline of Madison will now forever be marred by those hulking rusting towers and sagging lines. A more efficient model is to generate the power locally where it is consumed. Not to keep a wasteful nationwide grid constantly powered so that electricity can be bought and sold like a commodity.

ATC has one of the most powerful lobbyists working the capitol in Madison. They have gotten their way on every project they proposed.

My $0.02.


-Bill
“You'll never look back on your life and wish you had spent more time in the office." -- Brian Trautman, Captain SV Delos
West Branch  
#4 Posted : Tuesday, July 4, 2017 8:48:42 PM(UTC)
West Branch
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The Law of Unintended Consequences rears it ugly head once again. Wind power seems like a good idea until a situation like this arises. It's hard to imagine a solution that works and manages to help retain the largely unspoiled character of the Driftless.

I'd like to be optimistic, but we've witnessed the futility of recent massive protests against oil pipelines, one of which will bisect Iowa from corner to corner when complete. As has been pointed out above, "Follow the money."
s.t.fanatic  
#5 Posted : Wednesday, July 5, 2017 5:13:02 AM(UTC)
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Radical Right HaHa now thats funny. Sad to say but ALL alternative/green or whatever you want to call it energy sources are a joke unfortunately. If it wasn't for the subsidies there wouldn't be a single wind turbine or solar panel in the area.

It is proven fact that wind turbines give off stray voltage and in ag country it has huge economic effects.
TheDancingMan  
#6 Posted : Wednesday, July 5, 2017 6:41:34 AM(UTC)
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s.t.fanatic wrote:
Radical Right HaHa now thats funny. Sad to say but ALL alternative/green or whatever you want to call it energy sources are a joke unfortunately. If it wasn't for the subsidies there wouldn't be a single wind turbine or solar panel in the area.

It is proven fact that wind turbines give off stray voltage and in ag country it has huge economic effects.


We subsidize the oil and gas industry far more than solar and wind.
s.t.fanatic  
#7 Posted : Wednesday, July 5, 2017 7:45:26 AM(UTC)
s.t.fanatic
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TheDancingMan wrote:
s.t.fanatic wrote:
Radical Right HaHa now thats funny. Sad to say but ALL alternative/green or whatever you want to call it energy sources are a joke unfortunately. If it wasn't for the subsidies there wouldn't be a single wind turbine or solar panel in the area.

It is proven fact that wind turbines give off stray voltage and in ag country it has huge economic effects.


We subsidize the oil and gas industry far more than solar and wind.



We subsidize the worthless too so whats your point.

Not saying that oil and gas isn't subsidized more but they do hold a much higher value. What I am getting at is without the subsidies wind and solar receive they would be in the red and would completely be phased out of the energy industry along with their unfortunate investors.
TheDancingMan  
#8 Posted : Wednesday, July 5, 2017 7:57:11 AM(UTC)
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My point is we subsidize an ammoral oil and gas industry which supports human rights abuses and degrades the American name across the world and destroys our environment. You should check out Germany, they actually make stuff in that country, export it and use more wind and solar than anyone. By worthless do you mean the uber rich who we subsidize with tax cuts?

But talk and counterpoints are cheap on an online forum. S.T Fanatic, you should come up to St. Paul and we go fishing for muskie or trout or bass. Afterwards, I'll buy you a beer and we can talk in a civilized manner about these important concerns.

s.t.fanatic  
#9 Posted : Wednesday, July 5, 2017 11:06:00 AM(UTC)
s.t.fanatic
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TheDancingMan wrote:
My point is we subsidize an ammoral oil and gas industry which supports human rights abuses and degrades the American name across the world and destroys our environment. You should check out Germany, they actually make stuff in that country, export it and use more wind and solar than anyone. By worthless do you mean the uber rich who we subsidize with tax cuts?

But talk and counterpoints are cheap on an online forum. S.T Fanatic, you should come up to St. Paul and we go fishing for muskie or trout or bass. Afterwards, I'll buy you a beer and we can talk in a civilized manner about these important concerns.




I would love to come up for a guided muskie trip Or hit up the V. but I think that talking about these issues would just leave us both on opposite sides of the spectrum.

I would have loved to visit Germany twenty years ago but now you couldn't pay me to go there.

Allowing somebody to keep a few extra percent of THEIR money isn't a subsidy either.

Not that we need to keep this going but could you please elaborate on the human rights abuse the oil and gas industry is supporting?

If not no big deal Im'm sure nobody else cares to read us two going back and forth on issues that nobody has any control over.

Edited by user Wednesday, July 5, 2017 11:08:38 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

NBrevitz  
#10 Posted : Wednesday, July 5, 2017 11:52:07 AM(UTC)
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Alright guys, lets debate nicely and not ruin any friendships....
And... GoLaugh
"I fish because I love to: Because only in the woods can I find solitude without loneliness."
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