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Hoggies
#11 Posted : Friday, July 07, 2017 2:04:08 PM
Rank: Midge


Joined: 3/7/2017
Posts: 66
Location: SE MN
Guillermo wrote:
s.t.fanatic wrote:
I prefer to knock on doors and easily gain access to private water.

Well I prefer to get in the stream legally and walk right on through private property. At least I'm still able to do that here. You know if they could they'd shred our public trust doctrine.

And should the State governments not be in real estate business either? Should every square inch be privately held? Or is it only the Feds you have a problem with? Newsflash: State governments are no less corrupt, as evidenced by Wisconsin.


Most states have a constitutional obligation to balance their budget. They take on federal land, can't pay to maintain it, and sell it to campaign donors... And if that doesn't work, they just cut taxes until they can.
s.t.fanatic
#12 Posted : Friday, July 07, 2017 2:41:05 PM
Rank: Dragon Fly


Joined: 3/24/2010
Posts: 619
Location: Altura
Guillermo wrote:
s.t.fanatic wrote:
I prefer to knock on doors and easily gain access to private water.

Well I prefer to get in the stream legally and walk right on through private property. At least I'm still able to do that here. You know if they could they'd shred our public trust doctrine.

And should the State governments not be in real estate business either? Should every square inch be privately held? Or is it only the Feds you have a problem with? Newsflash: State governments are no less corrupt, as evidenced by Wisconsin.


Weather or not you're legally able to access private property to fish isn't the topic at hand. It is however a dick move and childish at that when you could just knock on the landowners door build a relationship and gain access for years to come. It's a moral not a legal issue.

No, the state shouldn't be in the real estate business either.

I'm not trying to say there shouldn't be any publicly held property. There is however more than enough IMO (In case anyone thinks i'm citing facts) than what there should be.

Where did you get the impression I was talking only about federal lands?
s.t.fanatic
#13 Posted : Friday, July 07, 2017 2:46:42 PM
Rank: Dragon Fly


Joined: 3/24/2010
Posts: 619
Location: Altura
Hoggies wrote:
Guillermo wrote:
s.t.fanatic wrote:
I prefer to knock on doors and easily gain access to private water.

Well I prefer to get in the stream legally and walk right on through private property. At least I'm still able to do that here. You know if they could they'd shred our public trust doctrine.

And should the State governments not be in real estate business either? Should every square inch be privately held? Or is it only the Feds you have a problem with? Newsflash: State governments are no less corrupt, as evidenced by Wisconsin.


Most states have a constitutional obligation to balance their budget. They take on federal land, can't pay to maintain it, and sell it to campaign donors... And if that doesn't work, they just cut taxes until they can.



I don't follow by what you mean when you say the states can't pay to maintain it, especially when you say they have to cut taxes to balance their budget.

Public lands should never be sold to campaign donors. Unless of course they show up at the auction and out bid everyone else. But like you say corruption.
s.t.fanatic
#14 Posted : Friday, July 07, 2017 3:46:58 PM
Rank: Dragon Fly


Joined: 3/24/2010
Posts: 619
Location: Altura
Gurth wrote:
s.t.fanatic wrote:


To hippy for my taste. Couldn't turn off the sub titles though. Don't get me wrong I love to watch fishing videos but don't care for the propaganda being driven down my throat when I do.



I don't think you understand the term "hippy." New age music is not "hippy."

Is the "propaganda" that you speak of where the narrator mentions the growing threat of our current government selling off public lands?

That's fact, not propaganda. They tried earlier this year and only through blowback from their constituents were they thwarted. Doesn't mean they won't try again.


It's fine if you want to rail on all things conservation as "hippy," but you can't have your own facts.


Here's one article from the obviously liberal rag Men's Journal... Public Lands

A Google search will turn up many more.



I wasn't referring to the music. The term Hippy like many other words can be used in several ways.

Propaganda: information, especially of a biased or misleading nature, used to promote or publicize a particular political cause or point of view.

My use of the word propaganda was correct. The video is trying to sway its viewers to believe that the government is trying to sell off all of our public lands and if they do nobody will be able to hunt or fish anymore and our outdoor heritage will be forever lost. Don't get me wrong I love seeing kids enjoying the outdoors as opposed to sitting around watching a piece of plastic or metal spin in circles or trying to get a bottle to land standing up. However the use of a young girl in a video of this nature just solidifies my opinion on what the intent of the video is even more.
Hoggies
#15 Posted : Friday, July 07, 2017 3:58:28 PM
Rank: Midge


Joined: 3/7/2017
Posts: 66
Location: SE MN
No, they cut taxes, creating a deficit, which needs to be offset by revenue, which is generated by selling public land. Bonus points if it takes the cost of managing and maintaining said land off the books.
Gurth
#16 Posted : Friday, July 07, 2017 4:35:38 PM
Rank: May Fly


Joined: 11/8/2016
Posts: 439
Location: Madison
s.t.fanatic wrote:
I wasn't referring to the music. The term Hippy like many other words can be used in several ways.

Propaganda: information, especially of a biased or misleading nature, used to promote or publicize a particular political cause or point of view.

My use of the word propaganda was correct. The video is trying to sway its viewers to believe that the government is trying to sell off all of our public lands and if they do nobody will be able to hunt or fish anymore and our outdoor heritage will be forever lost. Don't get me wrong I love seeing kids enjoying the outdoors as opposed to sitting around watching a piece of plastic or metal spin in circles or trying to get a bottle to land standing up. However the use of a young girl in a video of this nature just solidifies my opinion on what the intent of the video is even more.



Of course it can have multiple uses – in this case in an attempt to marginalize a view that you don't agree with. Tie this organization – Back Country Hunters – with elements of the far left and therefore, they must be crazy liberals… or… hippies.

Nothing in that video is false and nowhere does it say that ALL public land will be sold.

The sentence in question reads, "There is a real and growing threat that American lawmakers will sell off public lands, stripping the American public of its outdoor heritage and tradition."

The video is in support of a position, no question, but it's not propaganda. That statement is true. It's not hard to find articles that support it.

The GOP adopted the transfer of federal lands into its platform last year and many on the far right have been pushing for this for decades. Earlier this year, they worked on a bill that would have moved in this direction and the outcry surprised them and they backed off.

I know actual hippies, or at least their modern day equivalent. My life's travels have exposed me to a lot of alternative types of people and of all the hippies I know or have known, I can't think of any that were or are fishermen or hunters. That's not to say that they don't exist, but in my experience, access to public lands for hunting and fishing usually isn't their hot button item.

So the "hippies" in Trout Unlimited or the DNR or Back Country Hunters or on this board are actually sportsmen who by and large don't want public lands sold off to private interests who will put up NO TRESSPASSING signs or charge fees for access.

I can't for the life of me understand any sportsman who would be in favor of that or try to justify their representatives pushing for it.

Even if you have access to private lands, it doesn't mean everyone else does.

I'm eternally thankful that my state had the foresight to make our waters public.


I support your right to disagree with my position on this, but using marginalizing terms or calling factual statements propaganda does little to further the discussion.

Your mother had a tongue like a trout!
West Branch
#17 Posted : Friday, July 07, 2017 6:27:11 PM
Rank: May Fly

Joined: 9/23/2012
Posts: 182
Location: West Branch, IA
What was it that W.C. Fields had to say about dogs and children? I didn't get far into this video, and I suspect that I would agree wholeheartedly with the content.

By the way, you'd have to look a long time to find anyone more liberal than I am. I'm an old hippie from way back and I don't back away from that for a second.

Publc lands are crucial to the health, even the survival, of our watersheds. Only three states, Rhode Island, Kansas, and Nebraska, have a smaller percentage of public land than Iowa (look it up). The general health of our waters is also near the bottom of the list. Do you think there might be a connection? There is no reason to believe that water in the West would recieve better stewardship under private ownership than water in Iowa or anywhere else.

There's no going back if the nation divests itself of our public legacy. As I said in a related thread, I'll stop now.
NBrevitz
#18 Posted : Friday, July 07, 2017 8:24:00 PM
Rank: Super Fly


Joined: 3/17/2013
Posts: 1,133
Location: Lake Elmo, Mn
Alright, I'm gonna go catch a 15" Brookie to distract you guys from fighting with each other... Let's just all be friendsThumpUp
"I fish because I love to: Because only in the woods can I find solitude without loneliness."
Gurth
#19 Posted : Friday, July 07, 2017 8:43:00 PM
Rank: May Fly


Joined: 11/8/2016
Posts: 439
Location: Madison
NBrevitz wrote:
Alright, I'm gonna go catch a 15" Brookie to distract you guys from fighting with each other... Let's just all be friendsThumpUp



So... you think that me hating you will help?

Laugh
Your mother had a tongue like a trout!
NBrevitz
#20 Posted : Friday, July 07, 2017 10:33:32 PM
Rank: Super Fly


Joined: 3/17/2013
Posts: 1,133
Location: Lake Elmo, Mn
West Branch wrote:

Publc lands are crucial to the health, even the survival, of our watersheds. Only three states, Rhode Island, Kansas, and Nebraska, have a smaller percentage of public land than Iowa (look it up). The general health of our waters is also near the bottom of the list. Do you think there might be a connection? There is no reason to believe that water in the West would recieve better stewardship under private ownership than water in Iowa or anywhere else.
.

I get that, but those are three of the most intensely farmed states in the country. When you look at it, the healthiest streams are generally in areas with very poor soil conditions for agriculture. That's why the Manistee and Au Sable in Michigan never fell off that badly, the soil conditions aren't conductive to growing anything besides fruit trees and morels (my family has hunting land 5 minutes from the Manistee, and I can assure you the soil is extremely poor). That's also why many of the best streams in the country are in mountain ranges with no areable land. When you look at it, many blue ribbon streams in New England, Michigan, and Wisconsin are privately owned at the headwaters. In cases as such, public land isn't as much of a necessity as general stewardship and water quality regulations, which I happily support and volunteer my time for.
. Not saying I want public lands sold, just saying it's more complex than ownership. Go fish the upper 10-12 miles of the Manistee and tell me it's in poor health as the Brook Trout bounce off your wadersLOL
"I fish because I love to: Because only in the woods can I find solitude without loneliness."
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