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NBrevitz  
#11 Posted : Friday, April 5, 2019 4:02:05 PM(UTC)
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Big thing with this is, I have no idea what the lay of the water is like where you are fishing. And it’s about your enjoyment. I’d never go that slow, but if that’s the pace you enjoy, stick to it. It’s your time, don’t worry about keeping up an arbitrary set pace.
"I fish because I love to: Because only in the woods can I find solitude without loneliness."
Gurth  
#12 Posted : Friday, April 5, 2019 5:15:23 PM(UTC)
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Yeah pace varies quite a bit for me depending on water and target fish.

I will spend time on a spot though that I believe in and even as I'm doing it I'll chide myself for "wasting time."

I'll switch lures, vary retrieval speeds and path, etc, etc…

Got a 21 inch brown on the 9th or 10th cast in a corner hole last year.

Might have even said out loud, "I KNEW you were there!" when he hit. Laugh

YMMV


I have a streamer fishing buddy that I've gone out with a few times and his pace drives me bonkers to the point that I won't fish with him anymore. He can get off 3 or 4 little casts in the time that I can do 1 and in addition, I watch him walk by lies that I know hold a fish.

Once he walks past it though, the spot is blown.

When we go together now, we split up and take our own stretches and meet up later.


No matter what though... I never have a set pace or any benchmark it that area that I'm trying to hit. Every day and every location is different.


.

Edited by user Friday, April 5, 2019 5:18:03 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

“Harvest eaters... release trophies.” -Gurth
Private correspondence at: jkschind "at" tds.net
Troutzilla  
#13 Posted : Friday, April 5, 2019 6:25:00 PM(UTC)
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I'm not sure there's a correct answer for how quick you should move on a stream while trout fishing. Case and point: I caught this 32inch Rainbow on my 8th-10th cast in a hole that I had already given up on. The only reason I was still casting was because my buddy's gear was all tangled up and I was waiting on him to get his sh*t figured out. The result of standing around for an extra 5 minutes casting....my biggest trout to date. I would have definitely walked by this beast if I hadn't had to wait for my friend. Now I almost always take one more cast if I can....

32 Inch Rainbow
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Life of Riley on 4/6/2019(UTC)
Pete  
#14 Posted : Friday, April 5, 2019 10:06:52 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: s.t.fanatic Go to Quoted Post
I cover a lot of ground UNTIL I find a big fish. I have found big fish before that I will camp out on for a half hour casting and changing lures/retrieval rates/styles. Many times I can get them to finally get pissed off enough that they take but sometimes they don't. Usually I get them to swipe at the lure once every 4-5 casts. I have a high level of energy and can cover up to several miles in a full day of fishing. When I'm out there I'm after a big fish. I'm not there to just enjoy the scenery and the time spent on the water. I do but...


I’m just curious: how often do you catch a fish after lure changes, varying retrieves, etc., as opposed to it hitting on one of your first casts? Conventional wisdom is that the first cast is your best chance because of the wariness of big browns; if they become aware of your presence, they’ll shut down. The B.A.S.S guys say the same thing, make the first cast count. But conventional wisdom is often wrong: I’ve caught steelhead after dozens of casts, usually while nymphing; until they spook, I think I’ve still got a chance. Some of the dry fly guys try to cause a “hatch” with repeated drifts over a fish. If I think a lie holds a big fish, I won’t be careless or sloppy, but if I don’t get a strike or follow quickly, it’s not necessarily time to move on.

How do others approach it? What makes you think there is nobody home or nobody interested and it’s time to move to the next hole?
RadRedJaw  
#15 Posted : Saturday, April 6, 2019 4:27:06 AM(UTC)
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Here’s another question that goes along with how long to fish a hole. How often do you catch a big one after you pull a fish or two out of a spot? I can pull 10-12 inchers one after another out of the same spot but I’ve yet to land anything large.
Is the opposite of a gut buster a butt guster?
shebs  
#16 Posted : Saturday, April 6, 2019 4:59:10 AM(UTC)
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Steelhead and salmon are a totally different animal from stream browns. Usually the browns will hit your first good cast or not at all...but if the hole is large enough, there's a good chance they didn't see your first offering. Always worth a few more tries. But steelies, and salmon especially, it's a matter of just pissing them off. Sometimes it takes 10 or 20 passes before they decide they need to murder whatever that thing is that keeps swimming by.
A bad day of fishing is better than a good day of work. ~Author Unknown
Modern Translation, with respect for the Notorious B.I.G. : "Fuck Money, Get Fishes"
s.t.fanatic  
#17 Posted : Tuesday, April 9, 2019 11:42:20 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Pete Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: s.t.fanatic Go to Quoted Post
I cover a lot of ground UNTIL I find a big fish. I have found big fish before that I will camp out on for a half hour casting and changing lures/retrieval rates/styles. Many times I can get them to finally get pissed off enough that they take but sometimes they don't. Usually I get them to swipe at the lure once every 4-5 casts. I have a high level of energy and can cover up to several miles in a full day of fishing. When I'm out there I'm after a big fish. I'm not there to just enjoy the scenery and the time spent on the water. I do but...


I’m just curious: how often do you catch a fish after lure changes, varying retrieves, etc., as opposed to it hitting on one of your first casts? Conventional wisdom is that the first cast is your best chance because of the wariness of big browns; if they become aware of your presence, they’ll shut down. The B.A.S.S guys say the same thing, make the first cast count. But conventional wisdom is often wrong: I’ve caught steelhead after dozens of casts, usually while nymphing; until they spook, I think I’ve still got a chance. Some of the dry fly guys try to cause a “hatch” with repeated drifts over a fish. If I think a lie holds a big fish, I won’t be careless or sloppy, but if I don’t get a strike or follow quickly, it’s not necessarily time to move on.

How do others approach it? What makes you think there is nobody home or nobody interested and it’s time to move to the next hole?


To your first question, Often enough to keep me doing it. You're right that your first cast is the best one and you better make it count. However, If a fish is still following/swiping at my lure he will bite. I just keep changing it up until I catch him and the majority of the time I do. Sometimes I'll lose track of where he is holding and spook him by accident then its all over.

I also believe that when you're fishing a big deep hole and you're not catching anything it is more than likely there is a big fish in there that you unknowingly spooked that shut the hole down. I cant confirm this but its my way of thinking anyway.
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Pete on 4/9/2019(UTC)
Gurth  
#18 Posted : Tuesday, April 9, 2019 12:30:26 PM(UTC)
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I'm no big fish expert and have really only recently (past few years) been starting to have somewhat consistent success in finding and catching them. So, keep that in mind with my anecdotal findings…

Thinking back, the vast majority of trout that I've caught that were 18 inches or more have not been in deep holes. I've gotten a few of course, but most are in shallower water, often a few feet above or below a hole or bend or just on some other lie that they like – whether it be a log or a drop or many times, tucked in the undercut under the grass waiting to ambush.

My most recent results from this year… of the 12-15 that I've gotten… at least 8 or 9 were tucked in the undercut on a strait, a couple were on feeding lies midstream and a few were on other assorted lies. I don't think I've gotten a big out of a hole yet this year.

Stilll… I spend (waste) a lot of time sinking spinners and other lures in them waiting and hoping.

Everything I've read and heard (books… Rosenbauer… etc...) says that trout in holes are not typically actively feeding and my experience has generally supported that.

I know about the piss em off approach though and I guess that's why I keep at it.

When you start to understand and internalize that big browns are ambush predators who aren't as efficient in their metabolism as say, bows, you can really start to see where they might be and where they most likely won't be. Sitting at the bottom of a structurally devoid hole is not a good place for them to find a meal other than maybe a worm and they may not bother to chase a fleeing meal as experience has taught them that they likely won't catch it.

Pretty sure the March 14 Orvis podcast talks about these things including the differences between bows and browns and how their metabolic processes help to dictate how they hunt and feed.

I found several "aha" moments in that cast and it's really helped me to better analyze my own experience and why things happened the way they did.

Highly recommend that cast – assuming it’s the one I'm thinking of.

/ramble and troutsplaining
“Harvest eaters... release trophies.” -Gurth
Private correspondence at: jkschind "at" tds.net
thanks 1 user thanked Gurth for this useful post.
Pete on 4/9/2019(UTC)
rschmidt  
#19 Posted : Tuesday, April 9, 2019 12:48:34 PM(UTC)
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By memory, some of the best inland stream lies for big browns, IMHO, has not been holes proper, but usually the current leaving the hole - usually a riffle? and the water going into a hole - a run? I have caught some larger fish in a deep holes, but perhaps these were in the hole and pounced in either direction. I have also caught large browns in bend undercuts vs. holes. Really, you need to cast everywhere, close to obstacles and bank cuts, as well as letting that lure sink in deep holes. The big could be anywhere. I do think the brown trout in particular does make a sophisticated assessment of if the prey is worth the possible energy expended. Brookies seem to only be capable of one thought at a time - flee or strike. Ron
Hoggies  
#20 Posted : Tuesday, April 9, 2019 6:22:16 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Pete Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: s.t.fanatic Go to Quoted Post
I cover a lot of ground UNTIL I find a big fish. I have found big fish before that I will camp out on for a half hour casting and changing lures/retrieval rates/styles. Many times I can get them to finally get pissed off enough that they take but sometimes they don't. Usually I get them to swipe at the lure once every 4-5 casts. I have a high level of energy and can cover up to several miles in a full day of fishing. When I'm out there I'm after a big fish. I'm not there to just enjoy the scenery and the time spent on the water. I do but...


I’m just curious: how often do you catch a fish after lure changes, varying retrieves, etc., as opposed to it hitting on one of your first casts? Conventional wisdom is that the first cast is your best chance because of the wariness of big browns; if they become aware of your presence, they’ll shut down. The B.A.S.S guys say the same thing, make the first cast count. But conventional wisdom is often wrong: I’ve caught steelhead after dozens of casts, usually while nymphing; until they spook, I think I’ve still got a chance. Some of the dry fly guys try to cause a “hatch” with repeated drifts over a fish. If I think a lie holds a big fish, I won’t be careless or sloppy, but if I don’t get a strike or follow quickly, it’s not necessarily time to move on.

How do others approach it? What makes you think there is nobody home or nobody interested and it’s time to move to the next hole?


First cast counts, but sometimes you'll get less than full commitment from the fish and it's time to change up. Obviously if you hook up and fight for a few seconds that's probably it, but if you're getting tapped, bumped, or followed, that's a sign that they're hungry or aggressive, just not for what you're putting in front of them.
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